Topic-icon Jaune du Desert

  • Rutten, Marcel
  • Rutten, Marcel's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 years 3 months ago #973 by Rutten, Marcel
Rutten, Marcel created the topic: Jaune du Desert
Sorry for writing in English, my command of written French is really bad. I hope you can still understand what I'm talking about.

I am new to this forum, the reason I joined is because in our orchard in Eindhoven, we have an apple tree which was unknown, until a recent DNA investigation pointed towards the name of "Jaune du Desert". This name came up because in the late 40's of the last century, pepinieres Gaujard-Rome sent some material to Geneva, upstate New York, in the USA. Their apple varieties were used as reference material for the DNA analysis. The only reference I can find is a 1931 catalogue by the Gaujard-Rome nurseries, in Chateauroux. They describe it as a cider apple, and that's it.
My question to this community is: Do you have any information on this apple variety (in any language)?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 years 3 months ago #974 by Fourey Henri
Fourey Henri replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Bonjour,
Pas de réponse dans tous les livres de pomologie sur les pommes à cidre, sauf le catalogue. Gaulard-Rome 1931
Peut-être une piste avec un producteur à Louvigné du Désert qui évoque sa "Petite Jaune" à cidre
Floraison 15 Mai / Maturité Octobre / Amère / 10-5 / Origine Inconnue
Il existe aussi une Belle du Désert
Cordialement.
Henri Fourey This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne/fougeres-35...out-du-cidre-3806206

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 years 3 months ago #976 by Fourey Henri
Fourey Henri replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Bonjour,
Pouvez vous nous donner des précisions sur le DNA de cette variété pour comparer avec nos données
ou bien son MUNQ si vous le connaissez.
Cordialement.
H.F.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Rutten, Marcel
  • Rutten, Marcel's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 years 3 months ago #977 by Rutten, Marcel
Rutten, Marcel replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
The DNA data are still being processed, for use in a scientific paper. Until that paper is finished, we cannot publish any data, but be sure we will share them with the scientific and pomological community when they are ready for publication. Just a little patience :-).

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 years 3 months ago #978 by Fourey Henri
Fourey Henri replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Re-bonjour,
Nous aurons bientôt les SSR et les SNP de vos échantillons, pour comparer au DNA de votre pomme. Nous devrions trouver si celle-ci est toujours présente sur nos collections en fruits à cidre.
Nous avons déjà une "Grand Mère du Desert" dans nos analyses MUNQ 4149 en 3n triploïde.
A bientôt sans doute.
Cordialement.
H.F.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Rutten, Marcel
  • Rutten, Marcel's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 years 3 months ago #979 by Rutten, Marcel
Rutten, Marcel replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Not sure if our DNA samples have been compared to yours, although I'm pretty sure that the comparison will be done against the apple DNA database as created by e.g., the FruitBreedomics project, in which e.g., INRA participated. It is still being extended today, our accessions will be part of that database at some point.

As already said: just a little patience.

The one thing I can say right now is that our Jaune du Desert is also triploid. The triploid varieties' DNA hasn't been fully processed yet (pedigree reconstruction is not finished). Neither Jaune du Desert nor Grand Mere du Desert are listed in "Pommiers a Cidre" by Bore and Fleckinger. Do you have any pictures of the variety Grand Mere du Desert?

Joyeux Noel,

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Rutten, Marcel
  • Rutten, Marcel's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 years 2 months ago #982 by Rutten, Marcel
Rutten, Marcel replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
All the best for 2022.

I found a picture of Grand mere du Desert: http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/SHBL/photo-148506.html
It looks quite different from our Jaune du Desert, which is pale yellow (I don't have pictures of it, yet).

So, even without MUNQ code etc, for me it is clearly a different variety.

best,

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 years 2 months ago #983 by Fourey Henri
Fourey Henri replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Bonjour,
La Grand Mère du Désert a le MUNQ 4149
Quel est celui de votre Jaune du Désert ?
Cordialement.
Henri Fourey

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Rutten, Marcel
  • Rutten, Marcel's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
1 year 8 months ago #1014 by Rutten, Marcel
Rutten, Marcel replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Hello Henry,

It's been quite some time, but recently we received the MUNQ codes for our apples. Our Jaune du Desert has 618. In the supplementary data accompanying the paper by Lassois et al (2016), at least the following synonyms appear:

1A7
Amère Précoce
Armagnac (Fausse)
Balancère
Belangerie Jaune
Blanche à Cidre Extra
Bulmer's Norman
Cézilly N°8
Eztica D654
Grosse Jaune
Petite Blanche à Cidre Douce Amère
Pomme d'Or
Roquet

For now, our geneticist has renamed the variety to Bulmer's Norman, which is probably wrong, because that is an originally French variety which has been renamed to Bulmer's Norman after entry in the UK.
So, two new questions now arise: which one is the most commonly used name in France? and which is the oldest name in use? (taxonomically, that should be the variety's name, I guess).

Looking forward to reading your ideas on this,

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
1 year 8 months ago #1015 by Fourey Henri
Fourey Henri replied the topic: Jaune du Desert
Bonjour Traduction pour nos lecteurs, je recherche dans nos données une ancienneté. Patience. H.F.

Cela fait pas mal de temps, mais récemment nous avons reçu les codes MUNQ pour nos pommes. Notre Jaune du Désert en compte 618. Dans les données complémentaires accompagnant l'article de Lassois et al (2016), au moins les synonymes suivants apparaissent :

1A7
Amère Précoce
Armagnac (Fausse)
Balancer
Bélangerie Jaune
Blanche à Cidre Extra
Normand de Bulmer
Cézilly N°8
Eztica D654
Grosse Jaune
Petite Blanche à Cidre Douce Amère
pomme d'or
Roquet

Pour l'instant, notre généticien a renommé la variété Bulmer's Norman, ce qui est probablement faux, car il s'agit d'une variété d'origine française qui a été renommée Bulmer's Norman après son entrée au Royaume-Uni.
Alors, deux nouvelles questions se posent désormais : quel est le nom le plus utilisé en France ? et quel est le nom le plus ancien utilisé ? (taxonomiquement, cela devrait être le nom de la variété, je suppose).

Au plaisir de lire vos idées à ce sujet,

Marcel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Mandonnet JacquesFourey Henri
Time to create page: 0.077 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum